SMH: the religion-lite today — prosperity Gospel, charismatic churches, cheap grace, etc. “Why are they attracting so many followers?”
First, they make people feel good.
Second, there is an energy and buzz to most of the services that are totally lacking from most traditional churches.
Third, they are optimistic — you won’t hear much talk of hellfire or such gloomy things.
Fourth, they seem younger and fresher than their crusty Protestant counterparts.
Lastly, the size and rate of growth are critical parts of their appeal.
Yes, the charo’s have always been heavily criticised by the “Sydney evangelicals”. However I don’t see it as entirely their fault — there are always itching ears that want to be scratched. They are just doing the part of “pleasing the crowd”.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Ironically, MBF Friday topics for welcome dinner last Friday and “desert night” on the coming Friday will be “Blessing” (福) and “Happiness” (囍) — two of Chinese symbols of prosperity. Obviously we are not teaching the new students how to achieve these right here right now, and the message will be kept biblical.
But guess why those topics were picked? To match the Chinese New Year theme, and we know that it is going to be “catchy”. Might actually caught some new comers by surprise I think, when they realised that the meeting is actually Christian themed.
I actually managed to strike some good conversation after the welcome dinner on Friday. Probably because of my age, I have became less patient to “chat” about general matters before unleashing “attacks”. I spent most of the evening talking to P, a first year EE Master student from Shanghai. I pretty much asked him about how he feels about Christianity after getting his name, where he’s from, his course, etc. But then the conversation got a bit heated, which pretty much concluded (30 minutes later) when he confessed that he wasn’t interested and he came for the food.
Well. At least he was honest.
Sunday church is at Applied Science, and it was packed. Great to see people coming back. Great to see many new comers joined us for the first time.
However there was an instance where I don’t find myself easy during Sunday’s service.
It was the music.
Personally I found it a bit over the top. I am actually fine with the music itself — we have a few more musicians and an electric drum, which I found was a nice fit. However, I did not get what they were trying to achieve. Four song leaders at the front?! The way things were conducted? The atmosphere we were trying to set up? “Shout to The Lord” that did not have lyric changed. Huh?!
I was standing there, looking around, wondering why we were doing this. Was it really necessary to emulate other “high powered” charismatic churches to attract crowds to ourselves? Not sure whether it really works, but have we considered negative effects over people who don’t think it is necessary?!
I’ll rather have more prayers (which was seriously lacking in our morning services), more missionary corner, more testimonies from fellow students, more O-week mission updates, more … (obviously not all on the same week). Than singing 4 songs in a row with some lyrics hardly reflect what God has done for us.
Whose itches are we trying to scratch? Yet at the same time we are bashing the “worship” style of those churches?
Okay. Enough rant. Maybe it was just my age again.
There was an interesting news article recently on the United Church of Canada’s 80th anniversary. Seemingly the only Christian denomination that “has remained synchronized to society’s evolution,” the article points out that they should be growing. Instead, their numbers are declining. Perhaps this is a sign of things to come for churches that similarly water-down the Christian message?
Hi, I was sitting beside Scott that Sunday :P. I quite enjoying the music and the singing. But reflecting on what Scott has written, I do see some problems with our church singing nowadays.
I found the singing for the past few months is too long. Bring back the days when we sing 2 songs, sermon and 1 song after that. Now it’s like 3 songs, a break, another song, sermon and another song. It’s ok to sing more songs, but at least make each one shorter.. At times, I was like on my way to sit half way but then I have to stand again (“oh, it’s still going.. “).
Last Sunday we sent a mixed message about who we are. Are we charismatic musically but evangelical in our preaching? Or are just we trying to sing biblical songs with charismatic flavour? Just what are we trying to achieve here with the music? Trying to get the more charismatic inclined people to be interested in joining us but at the same time alienating people from the other spectrum? Although it’s true you can’t satisfy everyone, but just where this will lead us I wonder.
And then we have praying with music on the background. It’s just to charismatic wannabe to me, although I realise this is not the first time we’ve done it.
Maybe I am just old, so don’t take any offence from my comment.
On a brighter note, I think last sunday was one of the best music I’ve heard in Focus for a long time. It’s clearly seen that the music team are well prepared and wanting to serve the congregation faithfully.
One issue I have — how can we bash charismatics when we ourselves are practising the exact same thing?! No, we are not only bashing them for their theological teaching, but also how they manipulate people with feelings and emotions.
Bang! That’s what I see ourselves are doing sometimes. Ain’t we hypocritical?
And more I read 1 Corinthians 9, more I feel when Paul said “all things to all men”, he did not mean “be like them to attract them”. It has to be read in the context of Christian freedom from 1 Corinthians 8.
Our church has an interesting philosophy on church growth: The members grow the church. The morning services (now 3, soon 4) are designed for the members, not visitors. They are not meant to be outreach events, though we certainly make every effort to welcome visitors.
The worship varies from week to week, sometimes a mix of CCM and hymns, sometimes just one or the other. But one thing remains true, the pastor teaches from the Bible. He has been going thru Romans, one paragraph at a time, for *years* now. He started the ministry in Genesis and has been alternating from the OT to the NT and back since then.
He sees his mandate from God as growing the believer, not making new ones. That’s the job of the church as a whole, seven days a week, not his job on Sunday mornings.
4000 folks on a Sunday morning, who come to be taught and challenged by the Bible. That number keeps growing because the message seems to be sinking in.
Guys, I was hoping you’d be more loving and gentle in your comments.
At the beginning of every session, especially the first session, the music team always gets the mandate, make it charismatic. This is not something that they pursue themselves, it came from the top, from JN.
Four singers, that’s my idea. No, actually, my idea was, add another singer. So what? What’s wrong with that? Just because charismatic churches have got more than one singer in front makes it charismatic? The Anglican cathedral has got a full choir in front!
Blame me for not changing the lyrics to Shout To The Lord. Why? Because you can’t, it’s a breach of copyright law. So this is what we’ve been doing for years, blatantly breaking the law upfront just to show that we’re different to – wait no, better than – them. Heck, we should’ve just taken that song out of our repertoire rather than abusing someone else’s work.
During our last practice, I said to the singers, look guys, despite what we’ve been asked, we can’t do this by mocking or faking charo. You either mean it and believe it, or sing how you think should. I know that all of them did what they believe.
If you know how much time and effort the team spent for the preparation, perhaps you might write differently. But this is just heartbreaking. We sang three – not four – songs in the beginning, See Him Coming, Amazing Grace and Shout To The Lord. If “Amazing Grace” doesn’t reflect what God has done for us, I don’t know whatelse does.
Tom,
I will discuss with JN about this issue.
Re: Anglican cathedral — that’s something that is very hard to get rid of, if you are talking about St. Andrew’s. That again shows “what people want”.
Re: Shout to the Lord — I think we should not sing it if we don’t agree nor wish to breach copyright.
Time and effort is one thing — good on you guys for making great music for the service! However people’s effort would not change what has been discussed here — what are we doing this for?
My main argument is, if we disapprove charo’s practise of manipulating people’s feelings and emotions with singing and music, then why are we trying to do the same? Unless,
(1) Maybe charo’s are not wrong.
(2) We are hypocritical.
It does not matter whether it is 3 or 4 songs. I am just showing my preference (of having extra items). But then my preference is also for JN to cut his talks to 30-40 minutes, which is probably an even more wishful thinking :)
The quality music on sunday did really show the effort put into the practice and everything. Don’t get me wrong, I really thankful for the effort and the committment of the music team. I know that it must be a very hard to get it to the that standard. As I said earlier the music was great, very professional, one of the best during my 7 years in Focus.
If it’s the mandate from the big guy to be charismaticy, well I don’t have anything to say to that. Maybe it’s an issue that the music team have to discuss the JN. I’m writing with the position of the pew sitter and my opinion is just one opinion. It’s not an attack to the music team in anyway. I hope it’s a constructive comment, if it’s not then God forgive me :P
Scott, aside from giving people what they want, whats wrong with having 4 song leaders, or even the whole choir in front? Maybe we should just have 1 leader in front, and the rest on the side or behind, as opposed to the front? Even if its giving people what they want, whats wrong in that? As long as we dont compromise the gospel, or doing anything ungodly, we can still do it, right? I have read 1 Cor 9 in context of 1 Cor 8, and I still think “all things to all men” is about “be like them to win them”. If you have other insight pls let us know.
I will jump in here, since this is I topic that I have been thinking (and writing) about recently. It sounds like most of you know each other, but I live in California, not Australia. However I enjoy reading Scott’s blog.
Music is very closely tied to the emotions, which is why it can be used to manipulate people emotionally. Certainly we should not engage in crass manipulation in church. But all churches, not just charismatic ones, use music to set a certain mood. Singing “Onward Christian Soldier” stirs certain feelings every bit as much as “Shout to the Lord.”
I see the emotional aspect of music as useful in two different ways in church. First, we should worship God with all that we are, including our emotions. Worship that is merely cerebral is an abomination to God. Second, we can use appropriate music to stir appropriate emotions in the context of worship. If the goal is merely to create an emotional experience then it is not true worship, but if our emotions are stirred in such a way that we are moved to genuine repentance and a deeper commitment to Christ then that is something good.
Sui,
It is only wrong if what people want is wrong. Read the SMH article and my PoV on it. Now, is it wrong having 4 song leaders? (Note: I am more concerned of the “way” we are doing things, i.e. charo’s wannabe, than the number of song leaders) Not necessary, but I think it hits my other concern. In the past FOCUS has been criticising charismatic churches’ practice of utilising music to manipulate people’s emotion, but I just see us playing the same game.
Did we just raise 1 Corinthians 8-10? :) Nor does it answer my “consistency” issue.
I think 1 Corinthians 9 is more about giving up freedom. That will be another blog entry for another day.
And sorry for those who are not part of FOCUS church. Thanks to your contribution.
Ken,
I do get emotional sometimes because of music. The last verse of “And Can I Be” is my soft spot. I am not saying that we cannot be emotional individualistically. But I don’t like being forced and manipulated to be emotional.
I think the way FOCUS criticising the charismatic is the doctrine of charismatic which they teach and sometimes how do they conduct the meeting which include tongues where they also encourage everyone to get that gift.
I think just because there are 4 singers down at the front and some drum doesnt mean that we become charismatic straight away since we keep teach from the bible faithfully.
From my view focus try to do this with a purpose to make the newcomers stay, again i know this will lead to discussion abt the things in corinthians but i think the idea of give up the freedom and be liked them in order to win them is pretty similar rite?
how do we give up our freedom? in corinthians paul give example if your brother feel troubled seeing us eat the food which has been sacrificed to idol then do it for that brother’s sake eventhough paul knows that is nothing wrong with that food.
So in this sense he does give up his freedom with be like them. In the same way i think the purpose for changing the style of the meeting is to make the newcomers stay so that they can hear God’s word and be taught and if God is willing they will grow.
Most of the newcomer are youngster and since we are a student church we need to know how is the best way to serve and teach,equip them( FOCUS vision ) . And i think this is one of good way to achieved that.
that is my 5c opinion
and yeah the music on sunday was great thank for the effort music team and sorry that the powerpoint is a bit dodgy
i did enjoy musics on sunday. great efforts from the music teams. i do enjoy singing love songs to our dear God and can jump up and down abt it :p but yes, last sunday was good an bad at the same time. it really felt like charo-wannabe. it’s faking focus *sigh* false advertisement someone said. when later down the weeks there’s only 1 singer, 1 pianist and 1 guitarist and back to the good ‘ol hymns.
i think we should learn from unichurch evening. they have great musics without any sense of faking charo. yes, i’m talking abt MYC style of singing. great music, great lyrics, yet at the same time honest abt who we are.
btw, amazing grace was butchered! :p deep meanings of the words get swallowed by the musics (too loud, too fast, too funky) or maybe its my “age” thing too :p
if the music was great maybe we should keep up with it? ie keep having 4 singers at front, keep having the drums set, etc for the rest of the year, not just during week 1 and 2
another question is can we achieve the MYC style of singing without being seen as charo-wannabe? if we can, how can we do that?
Chenny,
“Unichurch” — that’s exactly what I want to say!!
I have not been to Unichurch since, hmm, Vivian “retired” from MTS. However, from my memory, they have great music too. Very live and groovie band (that was 2 years ago). However you can tell the difference — that ain’t trying to be charo at all! Introduce the song, explain the difficult lyrics, and just get on with singing praises. No “background-music-in-prayer-makes-it-more-emotional” (or other charo-wannabe) business.
“Honest” is the word. Thanks Chenny.
Rusmin,
FOCUS has historically criticised *more* than just “theology” of charismatic churches. Otherwise we’ll just go all the way like that big charo church in Sydney that shall not be named :) What you do reflects what you believe. If the “Word” is not your emphasis, then you can be easily diverged onto something else, like “wealth”, “miraclous healing” or “music-makes-you-feel-good-about-yourself”.
Sui,
MYC style is good, but I am sure it is the result of many hours of hard work. I guess with limited resources (and music practise does take time), the question needs to be asked is, is it feasible to put a team of musicians into exclusively doing congregational music?
Yet it does not answer my initial concern. How good music is, is different from using music as a mean to manipulate people’s feeling and emotion aka charismatic style, which is inconsistent from what we normally believe.
Hi everyone… wow, big interest in this topic so it seems! Faith and I weren’t actually there that Sunday, so I guess we’re pretty clueless about what actually went on. I guess I have a few questions and a few comments to make simply based on what i’ve read here and not from actually being there…
First question: for those of you who have been voicing your concerns here, have you first gone to JN and Merrill with these concerns and ask them what they think? (I ask this for the sake of all of our godliness, if you know what I mean)
Second question: what exactly happened that made you feel emotionally manipulated? As we weren’t there, could you please provide a fuller description?
Third question: How was this week’s song leading compared to last? I know it was my wife who led it, but please feel free to comment as you really feel!
First comment: I’m certain that FOCUS does not want to practice emotional manipulation, especially as some of you have mentioned, this is what the leaders of FOCUS has preached against. Be that as it may, has anyone considered why the events unfolded as they did last week? Perhaps the way the new things which were tried came out the wrong way or perhaps some of the reactions here were not the ones they had hoped for or desired or expected? I guess it brings me back to my first question about whether anyone has approached whoever is in charge to ask…
Final comment: as a final comment, I hope that our blogging community would reflect the Fruit of the Spirit and would reflect the attitudes and behaviours and ‘speech’ of our real-life Christian community. I am sure we all have our gripes about church (and believe me, I perhaps have more than most), but I hope that we will all be very mindful how and when and to whom we express them. I’m not accusing anyone here or anything, I’m just wanting to remind us of this really important truth.
Thanks for your thoughts so far and I would love to hear back from all of you here!