Scott Yang's Playground

I think what Edmond was referring to is that in each of us there is good. If we let that good do nothing, evil will, by default, triumph. It’s easy to makes claims about God, Jesus, etc, but look around. Jesus died 2,000 years ago, yet I see no great uplifting of good. Waiting on God can be sort of like waiting on the Boogie man. All to often, He/She/They just doesn’t seem to do anything, Are we to sit on our butts and wait? Or should we be trying our best to keep evil from dominating the world more than it already has. I believe people are basically good when they have their needs met. It’s when those needs are not met that we have the problem. Yes, we need God, but God is long overdue. If you give God credit for everything, then you must give God credit for those unmet needs.

Frank,

I believe the original article does address the issue raised by Edmond, where he believed that there is something good in man. However, the whole point is to argue that, what if there is no one good? The evil triumph not because no one is exercising the good inside him/her, but rather, there is no one righteous, not even one. No one understands. No one seeks God, all have turned away! (Romans 3:10-12)

On another hand, you are requesting the justice of God to be exercised right now. However, knowing from the Bible that all of us are considered evil, are you ready to face God’s justice as well? I rather not, and God has also delayed his final judgement so that more people can repent. If God is the God that creates everything, including you and me, then he would not be the kind of God I would like to be face to face, considering how wicked I am.

But my final argument is that Jesus is this good man. Not that he is like the super hero in the movies, where innocent individuals are saved when they are oppressed by villains. In this movie, God is the judge dread, we are the villains ready to be punished, but Jesus is that good man, being the innocent scapegoat, took the punishment for us.

That makes him the super hero.

True that Jesus was a good man, but I don’t think there’s anyone today who would just go ahead and die for some other idiots wrong doings, I don’t want to sound selfish but sure as hell wouldn’t. And there are good men, they probably just think they’re one person in a crowd and they can’t do anything about it and clearly looking at what the American Armed Forces have done to the world, evil has triumphed, in conclusion I think that Jesus would have comme again to die for our sins, it’s been prophisised (sorry about spelling I’m only 14) that he will comme back in bad times, look at world war one, millions died…no Jesus, world war two Jesus’ people are victims of Genocide, over two million jews dead, no Jesus, I don’t want to sound anti-christ but it makes me wonder why he hasn’t comme back, is it because he doesn’t care about us, he doesn’t exist or he expects us to figure it out on our own, what I’m trying to say is, you shouldn’t mix Religion with Philosaphy (spelling again, sorry) or any other quotes. Other than that you make great points.

Graham,

No Jesus?

At World War I, Jesus has died for those sinned against God. At World War II where the Jews were genocided, Jesus has died for those sinned against him. Even at the present time, where we seem to have such a big mess out there in the middle East, Jesus has died for their sins as well. Noticed my emphasis on “has” – yes. Jesus came the first time, and he has already paid the full penalty for those sinned against God.

However, my article is not about whether Jesus has come to defeat the evil that is out there. My whole point is, Jesus as the good man has come to defeat the evil, that is YOU! Take it – we are the baddies here, and you might not have killed or murdered, but you too have sinned against God by rejecting his existance and trying to run your life your own way. I too realised that I was once rejecting him like that, but this perfect guy, Jesus, died for an idiot doing wrong things like me, 2000 years ago on a cross near Jerusalem, so that God does not need to punish me in the future judgement.

I just watched Tears of the Sun. Powerful movie. It has inspired me to get my life back on track with training to join the military and do special forces. I have always been into military stuff cause my father is in the armed forces and now in the middle east. As a Christian I know killing is wrong, but allowing evil to grow without restraint is worse. In war and self defense it is NOT murder. Those who kill God’s people have the right to defend them selves in the name of God. It is seen throughout the Bible. Stay straight in God’s will and do as he wishes. If you think that it is murder still; No sin is greater than another, but imagine yourself as the sniper watching a man covered in gasoline about to be lit. Would you allow it to happen? NOT ME!

Edmund was right on the mark with his statement. I don’t think he was referring to anything religious though. He said “men”. I am a Christian so don’t get me wrong. Men can sit by and do nothing… not write laws, not enforce laws, not fight evildoers in the world, and evil will surely prevail. I’m deploying for Iraq in 3 weeks to fight evil.

The good news is that evil will never triumph, though in the short time that we live our life it may seem so. For the Lord is a good and just God full of grace. Forgiveness is offered to all who answer the door. As God’s children we have a responsibility to do good when presented the opportunity. Evil spreads in this fallen world like fire, if we just sit and watch we are cowards. We must have faith in the Lord’s greatness and unwavering love for us and act, For faith without works is dead.

God bless the men and women serving our country, protecting the weak. Edmund Burke was right.

Edmund Burke’s quote is correctly sound in the Bible. First of all, we, as human, are the evil! We are the lost one, the evil one is the one we as Christians should fight against (from Eph.). We are not righteous, but it doesn’t mean there’s no more good inside us (we still want to become good, that’s why we are attracted by the love of Christ)!

As from Genesis to Revelation, the books hold a common core value is that we, as people can stand neutral. Either we are standing in God against evil or we will be standing in reverse. The most important thing is for us to choose a side, & to win is not by our force but by co-work with God. And that’s what Burke means. If we see evil is growing in our society, & we just let it go, we are totally mis-understand the real meaning of discipleship- do what God does.

my line
“As from Genesis to Revelation, the books hold a common core value is that we, as people can stand neutral.” should be
“we, as people CANNOT stand neutral”…

sorry for the fast typing.

The standard reaction to all of this by the average American is to do nothing. And that is precisely our problem. An old saying goes, “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” This maxim precisely describes where we are today as a nation.

When it comes to political ethics, too many of us have done nothing. We have forgotten that the transforming message of the Gospel is applicable to the social battles all around us. We have forgotten that if there is unethical behavior in government, it is because we have allowed it to develop. Yes, We the People elected our public officials – the good ones and the bad ones.

The solution to this problem is twofold. Acknowledging that the selfishness of men accounts for most of our political problems, we must be committed to obeying the Great Commission to make disciples of Jesus Christ. Then we must elect men who will serve unselfishly in a position of public trust. Politicians with inflated egos have no room for others in their lives. But the ego can be humbled by God.

Thomas Jefferson once said, “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.” Perhaps God will bring His judgment upon America in 2005. If He does, it will partly be because millions of good Americans remained silent when they knew that their government’s policies and actions were wrong.

I have just recently watched this movie and I was touched by the quote at the end. I am in the Armed Forces, in the artillery and I have recently been considering changing trades into engineering. The movie initially made me reconsider because I thought, “That’s exactly right. How can I be a ‘good man’ and do something about such terrible things that are happening in this world if I turn away from the ‘pointy end’ of the army?” But it occurred to me that, for a Christian, what we do to address evil is entirely different from what we saw in this movie.

For scotty, ultimately you are right, “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” and “we all, like sheep have gone astray” and Christ is the one man who triumphed over evil by doing what had to be done and sacrificing even his own life for us. But because of that, we may live in obedience to Him through His Spirit that we may also act as ‘good men’ as His body until He returns. We are the light of the world, the salt.

My regiment is training to go to Afghanistan in efforts to promote a peaceful state under a democratic government. I absolutely believe that this is a noble effort that will only help the people of that nation and I am willing to give my life to this cause if need be. But more than peace, more than a free state, these people need Christ. If these people repented and turned to the Creator of the Universe and the only savior, then there would be no need for my regiment to be there. It seems inconceivable to bring the gospel to this nation to any effect, but consider this, 50 years ago, western armies entered the pagan nation of Korea to prevent the spread of communism in that part of the world. Some of those soldiers brought the gospel with them. More importantly, missionaries had planted the seeds centuries before and they had no weapons. Today the nation of South Korea is perhaps the most Christian nation in the world, much moreso than our own.

I am still planning to transfer into engineering. I believe to fight terrorism we must attack its source: sin. We all may do that in whatever walk of life we follow. And it is the easiest thing for us to stand by and ignore, the easiest thing to allow to creep into our own lives and destroy our ability to fight; to take us POW. “Religion that God our Father sees as pure and faultless is this: that we look after widows and orphans in their distress and keep ourselves from being polluted by the world.” Christ has already triumphed over evil. He wants us to be His voice to the world and His hands. We need to do something for the world physically, as the Seals saved the people from certain death, but we must do more to show them how to be saved spiritually from a more horrible death… As always, I am going on and on, unsure of how to conclude, hoping my point has been made. May God Bless you all in your walks and if you have not bowed to Him, I pray you will.

Andrew Whitman

PS – as a matter of etiquette, I would like you all to know that I have looked into the origin of this quote as a matter of interest and discovered that, in fact, Edmund Burke never said or wrote it. Who actually wrote it is unclear, but it was only attributed to him about 100 years ago or so. If he had written it though, he would have been reffering to political parties. I recommend this link: http://www.tartarus.org/martin/essays/burkequote.html

I just want to put in my two cents even thought the debate is long done. I have watched and love the movie. To be honest ever time I watch it, it moves something within me. I am a military brat and currently engaged to a man that is over in Iraq. Given the quote, which I believe to be true, I think the main problem is that the “good men” don’t consider themselves “good men”. Note the quote does not say “perfect men” it says good.

I would like to think that I am a good person. I try to help people as much as I can, I know many others that do, especially people that have CHOOSEN to be apart of the armed forces. I work on a military base and have seen the tears of many who have ones they love leave for duty or come home. I shutter to think what would happen if these men and woman didn’t think they could make a difference in the world. I think that God put us here to watch out for each other. We must do all we can for our fellow memeber of the human race that are in need. I praise anyone, anywhere, that does anything in service to another.

God bless you all (I know he does) and everyone that serves in anyway.

I know that this thread is approaching 4 years old, however since I find both the quote and the movie inspirational, I felt compelled to add my comment.
I agree with about 90% of the comments here and would add that although we are saved by grace, doing nothing when others are under attack is certainly not what Christ asks of us.
I believe this not only applies to the evil of nations/terrorists etc but also applies to the evils that can harm us or our families in ways that may not necessarily result in death.
This means looking the other way when a program such as Food Stamps is not providing for those it is designed to help yet gives aid to those not truly in need.

In my case my family has been through some major battles with an autistic son, a daughter who was “harmed” by a man that took advantage of my wife during a nervous breakdown brought on by more that she could handle and currently by vicious rumors MOSTLY circulating in the local Christian community about my so-called failures to provide for my family and much more. These rumors have crippled my business and we can no longer provide for our family. YET when I have confronted others that have allowed these rumors (or in the case of the harm that could have been stopped upon my daughter or the judgments upon my son), these person have verbally chosen to look the other way and hide behind “trust in the Lord”.
This is as wrong as allowing the Nazis to run a muck in Europe and similar.

I discuss in detail some of these events in my blogs:
http://carl-my-thoughts.blogspot.com/

While I realize that this argument is long over, I feel the need to address some of the issues raised in this discussion. Firstly, this idea that there are no good men (and I suppose the same philosophy applies to women, although we seem to keep forgetting to mention that) is just purely ridicules. Do not mistake god men with perfect men, there is a difference. I have known lots of good men in my life, but never any perfect ones.

Frank was right in his initial comment. It is up to us to create good in our world, it’s lazy and ignorant to sit around and say that only God can save us. Whether we like it or not, our universe is an independent one in every possible way. This life can never be anything more than what we make of it. If we could not become better people by choosing to be, then our existence would really have no purpose. If one cannot effect ones identity through the choices we make by exercising our free will, then I am afraid that we really cant claim any sort of repentance, or even purpose for that matter. I don’t think that a good God would dam us to a purposeless existence.

i remeber that the movie has mentioned about another quote which is “the god had left in africa” .

that is also the truth of what you were discussing about if all of us was not communist .

maybe you would like to think of this question in this way .

if all of us was a christian ,there would no longer have needed the god .
if all of us was good enough ,the god should have done what it want to do for us already.

the conclusion will be about the rules of what the son of the god ,jesus chirst , had made is unable to be changed.

that is why we call those rules which had been written on the paper by his followers bible.

and the jesus chirst was the one who tried to be the one forever and ever.

great …

humm …
ok …

this question is very interesting to me .
there is the god who has created the world in order to let its creation keep following its will and to live in its promised land .

we chose not to follow its rule and its will so that we will be judged by the god .

after that ,we should have been dead ,we shall be dead .
we should already have a judgement before it punishes all of us and it should already have made a judgement for everyone .

but there was a man who tries to follow its rule and its will from the beginning to the end . this man was the jesus christ .

and he claimed that he is the son of god . what he have done was all about salvation

he was willing to have given his life to the god in order to save us away from devil or something else and he was willing to give all of us the chance to live so that we are now free to go .

he became a bridge between all of us and the god ,and he gave us a deal with the god .

now ,we can make our own choice whether be a good man or not which means no more god’s will and no more god’s rule .

it is because of the god does not know how to make its creation stop to do everything it would not like to see .

it is also about the decision that the god had made .
it had chosen to let its son die for us in order to keep all of us alive so that we are still free to go now .

where is the god ? it has gone for long long time .
what was the jesus christ done ? he has just done what he want to do .no more , no less .

that is why i said “the god has left in africa” whether there are christians or not . in fact it should be “the god has already left all of us”

no matter the god or the jesus christ has done ,that is nothing to do with us now .

the jesus christ has just demonstrated what the definitely righteous human is and what the real truth is .

so now … we have a new question . what is good man ? what is bad man ?
i believe that there is no second one who can be the same as the jesus christ .

now, you got the answer .
the god only choose the one , jesus christ , being its son forever .
all of us or rest of us is still guilty forever until we die .

there is no more good man in the world , only if every one of us can be the same as the jesus christ .then , we could say “there is a good man in the world” .

to someone who has felt having been set up .
they would say “there is no good man in the world”
to someone who has not felt having been set up.
they would say “there might be some good men in the world”

because there is no one who can proudly say “he is a good man” except the jesus christ .

in the other hand ,what is good ? what kind of rules about to be a good man do you accept ?how can you measure everything you see that is good ?

at least ,i think the bible that is just a way for measurement .
and i believe that is just what the jesus christ would let us see .

the bible is meaningless ,it is just a kind of standard which could let us refer to it .that is all .

to be honest with you ,to protect anything you like or to protect whatever you have is our natural instinct .

who can decide the rule that should be followed by every one of us ?
no one , only one oneself can do it for oneself .

that is why i said “the jesus christ was the one who tried to be the one forever and ever.”

and that is also why i said “that is why we call those rules which had been written on the paper by his followers the bible.”

what if there is another one who is chosen to be the god or to be another jesus christ for somebody .
then , what this one will do will always be correct to them .

finally ,i realized that the truth of that quote “the only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” is totally bullshit .

if the jesus christ were still alive ,he should now be ruling us almost for two thousand years .

and we should never die .and why do we have to be judged by him or the god ?

even if we shall die before we try to be good men or we try to believe those rules , there is no other reason for us to think of the judgement’s day . without the god’s will , we still need to keep alive in the world no matter the world will be . without a judgement of the jesus christ , we still need to make any decision for our own choices no matter what we will get.

and when will the day come ? when will the jesus christ come back ?
the god has given a new life to its son once. now , where is the son of god ?

have you ever seen him ?
who is against whom ?

since all of us is evil , by definition of the bible .
whoever one is against whomever one ,you ,me ,he ,she . but not the god and the jesus christ .

they are just two nouns to us .

the god does nothing . the jesus christ did not come back .
even if he did come back ,what is all about ?

nothing ,we will still die ,we will be judged by him ,we are still guilty when we were born .

what is different between before he die and after he is dead ?
none .

the bible is just the rules to help us make a judgement for our behavious .that is all .

by the way .
how about my english ?
i think that it is not so good .

maybe ,you will say “you are a noob” . he he he
i just said what i feel .
no offense .
any suggetion , any advice and any comment are welcomed .

Shouldn’t we seperate “good” from “righteous”? You seem to use these two words as if they were synonyms — but they are not. I know some very, very good men who are far from righteous. On the other hand, I know some righteous men who are far from good.

Wasn’t this a primary point of Jesus’ parable of the Good Samaritan? That men need to be good to each other (not the whole point of course, because there is much deeper meaning in that parable).

“What if there are no good men”. Well, eventually that may be the case. But for now we know that there are good men and women — lots of them. We also know that there is innate good in almost everybody (I don’t say that man is innately good — because this is patently false. But only that there is a seed of good in most people. As proof I offer how easily bad people can be good to their family, or how even hardened criminals in prison respond with anger to pedophiles).

I think it is wise for the Christian community to embrace an old Arabian concept in certain matters — “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”. When good people stand against evil, we as Christians need to recognize and support this goodness as a common bridgepoint.

The comment posted by ‘devil’ is the one that is total ‘bullshit’… Sorry to say but the man is either a complete idiot or completely ignorant… He goes on ranting for over a page and yet says nothing of essense… I suppose that trashing the works of established great minds gives him a sense of (self-)importance and (self-)satisfaction… I presume that he has forgotten the historical and cultural context of the issue(s) at hand.

I am somewhat glad that YOUR “works” will not go beyond your websites comments… This will your “great” contribution for posterity! I really want to call you an idiot, but that would be a compliment… (I really hope that you have not “oozed out” anything publishable with your PRIMITIVE concepts).

Get a life!!!

In response to a comment Posted by Michael on Wed, 24 June 2009 1:37 am:

Although I do agree with you in much of what you have written, I have to make a case of what may seem like semantics. I STRONGLY oppose the term “good” in the context of your comment. You can only appreciate it as a Christian. As a Biblical concept, the term good is subjective and therefore means next to nothing.

A great many Biblical characters were “good” people in the eyes of the world. Even Ananias and Sapphira, who were giving “almost” all the proceeds from the sale of their estate (and they were wealthy) to God in the book of Acts, yet God chose to strike them dead. Just imagine someone in modern days selling their belongings for $10 million and giving a local church $9.9 million. And even, as in case of Ananias and Sapphira, if they claimed to be giving it ALL having withheld $0.1 million – they would still be considered good people.

A good person nowadays could be as charitable as he or she can be, or perform acts of kindness that would put to shame most kind people in the world, or be more encouraging than all motivational speakers combined, etc. – as long as Christ is not present in their hearts, that “goodness” would mean next to nothing… It is a subjective term… Thus, (rhetorically) who determines whether a person is good or not? A suicide murderer is considered “good” by a vast group of people… Hitler was considered good (and still is) by a vast group of people for one reason or another… Having been raised in a Communist country, I can vouch first hand that Vladimir Lenin was loved and considered good by tens, if not hundreds, of million of people – including me at the time…

I am only using these extreme examples to make a point. There are plenty of “ordinary good people” in all of our lives, yet without Christ this means nothing…

GOODNESS IS SUBJECTIVE, RELATIVE, AND TEMPORARY… RIGHTEOUSNESS IS OBJECTIVE, ABSOLUTE, AND ETERNAL…

As well as THE truth is always objective, absolute, and eternal… It is always measured by one standard: The Word Of God…

And, returning to the topic of this discussion, I believe that the historical context of the quote prompts one to interpret “good” as “righteous”…

I also believe that it is not the Good that is antonymous to Evil, but it is rather Righteous (not from poetic or grammatical perspectives, but from the spiritual one).

Unlike you, I know of no “righteous men who are far from good”. Do not mean to sound judgmental toward them, but they might be Pharisaically righteous, which is simply a hypocritical righteousness.

Basically, what truly matters is to be “good” in the eyes of Christ and to be Christlike… And THAT is what will cause one to be good period… Even in the eyes of the people of the world, and not the other way around.

I apologize for being so long-winded. Believe me, I could go on… but I’ll stop here so as not to disperse my point…

Scott,

Your first comment on this quote was interesting- and I am glad to witness a different take on it. Wow it has been over 5 years since your first post. I became interested in this quote because of my recent understanding of the issues with sex slave trade. This quote comes directly to mind. I am righteous through Christ (Romans). Good, well I try – not for heavens sake but to be obedient, and because I love the Lord I want to please Him. My heart is deceiving and weak. I think the term ‘good’ is mostly expressed in the typical ‘Christian’ who is out to do good (which can be debated whether or not ‘he/she’ is saved) – sometimes feels like the blind leading the blind…. too weak with little faith to trust in Him and do His work. Sometimes thought of as in complacent terms, something this country has gotten a little too comfortable in. I agree with most of you the difference between righteous, perfect, and good. But, in and out, given the wide variety of good, it is still possible for ‘good men to do nothing.’

peace
T

All that christians abdicate is rational thought and responsibility for their actions, there is nothing more dangerous than faith over reason.

We all have the ability to do good or evil. It is our choose. That is free will.

Reason is the dangerous thing. Someone who has not given their life over to Christ can justify anything with reason. It was people used reason that brought about the crusades. It was when people used reason that the inquisition came about. They reasoned that they had the right to torture and kill others for gain. It was not faith that lead those acts. It is when people use reason to use weaker, less informed people’s faith to profit them that is dangerous.

By doing nothing when those who are committing acts that profit them at others expenses brings about acts like 9-11. By abandoning Afghanistan when the Russians left we gave the Taliban and bin Laden the power to perform evil.

The Republican party used the word Christian but their actions prove that they are not living their lives for Christ. There is a reason that we are warned that not all who say that they are doing thing in HIS name are known by HIM. By prayer and meditation we take responsibility for our actions. By prayer we look beyond our selfish wants.

I am not a perfect person. I try to do good but I regularly fall short do to my own weaknesses. Even so I try to be as righteous I can be and ask forgiveness for my mistakes.

I also know that being a good person is not enough to pay for the sin committed against GOD. GOD does not abandon us. We chose to abandon HIM. If HE abandoned us then HE would never have sacrificed HIS son to pay the cost of that sin. The price of sin is death. A sinless man paid that price for all who accept the gift. We have free will. We can chose to accept the gift of forgiveness or not.

It’s three in the morning and I just finished watching the movie “Tears in the Sun” I referenced the last quote which inspired me to find out who wrote it. It really doesn’t who was credited with it and didn’t say it, the truth in the statement speaks for itself and truth lives on. I’m so thankful to see all of your post even though disappointed in the number. I can’t discuss this true statement without a long dissertation that would lose most of you. I’ll just make a few points to encourage you God’s people.
Adam and Eve did not allow sin first..Satan already had allowed it to enter his life and two thirds of the angels through rebellion. Most of the church is in rebellion against God and His Word today and yet expect Him to operate through them.
Jesus defeated every enemy that we have on Calvary. However, you have to appropiate this victory just like you do your salvation..every moment of the day.
Eph 6:10- says that we wrestle not against flesh and blood..which means we are wrestling against the kingdom that Adam and Eve allowed back into this planet. In Gen 1:26 & 28 you will see that God delegated this planet to be under the dominion of Man..Surely you would not think God is in control if you look around and see this mess.This is a cop-out for us taking the responsibility of the dominion of this earth and as Godly people standing and executing this dominion according to the laws of God laid out through the whole Bible. You are in a wrestling match every moment of the day against your enemy from satan’s kingdom. God allows satans kingdom to prove who He will take with Him into eternity. Gal 5 has a beautiful expression of the two kingdoms that are fighting for your being…you are the prize.
Your enemy come to you through thought in the form of envy, bitterness, hurt, un-forgiveness, resentment, retailiation for things done or thought done. He works through thought to bring disease to mankind in 90% of all known diseases. I Cor 10 teaches us to take every thought captive. Stinking thinking kills, steals, and destroys.
God is the victor but satan wants to usurp his authority and convinue you and I that he is the victor. He is only if you allow him. You have to join God through his helper the Holy Spirit to be able to concore your enemy. You are not strong enough to do it.
God – Change Are you willing to change? Yes, but! Here we are.
My prayer is that any who read this will know John 8:32 which says ‘you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you mad” (sorry, I meant free) Remove your enemy by the poswer of the Holy Spirit who joined you when you accepted Jesus as your Saviour. Will you let Him change you?
This statement at the end of the movie got me. Evil exist where good men except it. There has been a dissertation about being a good person, when Jesus even corrected someone when they called him good. Our Good is equal to our involvement with God.
God Bless and ignite a fire of hunger to know Him.